If I was her attorney I’d fight that tooth and nail. Medical records are irrelevant to a defamation suit; the operative question is what information Rowling had available when she said her statements. The content of medical records Rowling had no access to aren’t germane to that question.
I don’t know how French law works, but I American law to sue for defamation requires proving that the defendant knowingly said something false about you that caused damages.
Mostly—for the purposes of American law, “knowingly” includes reckless indifference for whether a statement is true or not true. In this instance though the distinction is irrelevent; whether Rowling said a false statement with actual knowledge it was false or with reckless indifference to whether it was false or not, the content of medical records for which she had no access are immaterial.
Europe tends to have much stricter laws around defamation. In the US, to win, you generally have to prove that they knew what they said to be untrue especially if they said it about a public figure, and truth is an absolute defense. As far as I know, that is not generally the case in Europe. I believe you can be held liable for saying things you sincerely believed were true.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand it in the UK the burden is on the person who originally made the claim to prove that their claim was true.
Medical records are entirely relevant to this specific defamation suit as they determine whether any defamation actually happened. The question is whether Rowling was telling what she reasonably believed to be true.
I don’t know a lot about French law, so someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that discovery is lot more limited than in the US.
They’ll certainly call that boxing federation as a witness to provide the results of the testing they conducted. And they will show her signature acknowledging the test results. At that point, it would seem like the burden will be on her to prove that she’s not a man.
That test was conducted by the IBC, which is now a discredited organisation, because Khelif defeated the Russian champion and Russia’s government owned Gazprom is the only sponser of the IBC, so she was disqualified based on the results of a test taken 2 years prior which she passed at the time and now “magically” DIDN’T pass, allowing the IBC to overturn her victory and the Russian champion remained officially “undefeated”.
Its an absolute shambles that anyone gives this “test” any credit and just goes to show what people will believe so long as it lines up with their predjudices.
Imane Khelif is a woman, always has been and always will be, her having short hair and strong bone definition doesn’t change that and it is simply misogynistic to suggest that a woman with strong features isn’t a woman just because she doesn’t conform to some people’s idea of beauty.
One thing is for sure. JK is going to have the best lawyers in the world and they are going to scour the earth looking for damning evidence against Imane. The defense if going to be that Imane is a man, she knows she’s a man, and she knows she should not be fighting against women. Maybe that IBC test is an obvious fraud and her signature and obvious forgery. Maybe there’s nothing out there at all to cast suspicion on her. But if there is, JK’s lawyers are going to go after her like vicious attack dogs.
JK, under UK law, would still have to prove that she had sufficient evidence to make her assertions when she did - so if they “find” something later on it doesn’t help her case because she would have had to know that when she published the comments.
Which, obviously she didn’t/doesn’t otherwise she would have said so at the time, or to put it simply via the UK right to silence “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court”.
This is all moot though because Imane is a woman and will pass whatever tests are required so long as they are not being conducted by a discredited organisation.
In the interview, her French trainer and biology professor stated that he referred her to a world class endocrinologist, who confirmed “she is indeed a woman, despite her karyotype and testosterone levels.” In other words, she’s XY and male testosterone levels. (They never made it clear what facts were relied on for the “she is indeed a woman” statement, but obviously it wasn’t her genome).
The following exchange took place between the journalist and trainer/bio professor immediately after this statement about her karyotype:
Some claim that XY profiles have a physical, muscular superiority over XX profiles.
“People say that everyone should play sports. Everyone, except these people? Some suggest creating special categories, but even within a group of hypoandrogenic or hyperandrogenic people, there are differences among them. There is such a significant variation that categories cannot be established.”
Her trainer also admitted they had to lower her testosterone levels to below male levels.
She has never once claimed to be XX. I’m not sure why you would assume she is?
They will not, in fact, pull any medical records. The IBA data is compromised, from a Russian oligarch run organization backed by Putin. Banned for match fixing the 2016 Olympics, they have no creditability anymore and any test results they have would be so suspect as to be inadmissible in court.
They also don’t have to prove Imane Khelif is a woman (which she is) to win such a case. Imane Khelif was stated to have been born a woman, and has been a woman her whole life.
There was ZERO evidence for JK’s claims outside of disreputable foreign sources with an anti-western culture battle being propagated by their war mongering President.
It’s like Alex Jones peddling Sandy Hook conspiracies. There was no reasonable reason to believe any of that, and that’s why he’s on the hook for over a billion dollars.
The ONLY source JK or Elon had was something that isn’t a valid source - anything else that may or may not exist was not at her disposal, other than public knowledge that Imane Khelif was born a woman and lived her whole life as a woman.
In the courts, this plays out as “You honor, my client has been a woman her whole life, as evidenced by her birth certificate and passport. The defense has no admissible evidence they could have seen that would have supported their attacks at the time.”
She retains a right to privacy, so the courts aren’t going to require medical records when JK and Elon didn’t have access to her medical records when they went after her.
If it does in fact make it to court, the defense lawyers will ask for medical records during discovery.
If I was her attorney I’d fight that tooth and nail. Medical records are irrelevant to a defamation suit; the operative question is what information Rowling had available when she said her statements. The content of medical records Rowling had no access to aren’t germane to that question.
If the defamation involves medical history wouldn’t medical records be relevant?
Here I think it’s a stretch. Subpoena a birth certificate and be done with it. Or is a birth certificate considered a medical record?
I don’t know how French law works, but I American law to sue for defamation requires proving that the defendant knowingly said something false about you that caused damages.
Mostly—for the purposes of American law, “knowingly” includes reckless indifference for whether a statement is true or not true. In this instance though the distinction is irrelevent; whether Rowling said a false statement with actual knowledge it was false or with reckless indifference to whether it was false or not, the content of medical records for which she had no access are immaterial.
Europe tends to have much stricter laws around defamation. In the US, to win, you generally have to prove that they knew what they said to be untrue especially if they said it about a public figure, and truth is an absolute defense. As far as I know, that is not generally the case in Europe. I believe you can be held liable for saying things you sincerely believed were true.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand it in the UK the burden is on the person who originally made the claim to prove that their claim was true.
Same applies for Australia.
And this is how the rich will drag it to emotionally and financially try destroy her
Medical records are entirely relevant to this specific defamation suit as they determine whether any defamation actually happened. The question is whether Rowling was telling what she reasonably believed to be true.
I don’t know a lot about French law, so someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that discovery is lot more limited than in the US.
They’ll certainly call that boxing federation as a witness to provide the results of the testing they conducted. And they will show her signature acknowledging the test results. At that point, it would seem like the burden will be on her to prove that she’s not a man.
That test was conducted by the IBC, which is now a discredited organisation, because Khelif defeated the Russian champion and Russia’s government owned Gazprom is the only sponser of the IBC, so she was disqualified based on the results of a test taken 2 years prior which she passed at the time and now “magically” DIDN’T pass, allowing the IBC to overturn her victory and the Russian champion remained officially “undefeated”.
Its an absolute shambles that anyone gives this “test” any credit and just goes to show what people will believe so long as it lines up with their predjudices.
Imane Khelif is a woman, always has been and always will be, her having short hair and strong bone definition doesn’t change that and it is simply misogynistic to suggest that a woman with strong features isn’t a woman just because she doesn’t conform to some people’s idea of beauty.
One thing is for sure. JK is going to have the best lawyers in the world and they are going to scour the earth looking for damning evidence against Imane. The defense if going to be that Imane is a man, she knows she’s a man, and she knows she should not be fighting against women. Maybe that IBC test is an obvious fraud and her signature and obvious forgery. Maybe there’s nothing out there at all to cast suspicion on her. But if there is, JK’s lawyers are going to go after her like vicious attack dogs.
JK, under UK law, would still have to prove that she had sufficient evidence to make her assertions when she did - so if they “find” something later on it doesn’t help her case because she would have had to know that when she published the comments.
Which, obviously she didn’t/doesn’t otherwise she would have said so at the time, or to put it simply via the UK right to silence “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court”.
This is all moot though because Imane is a woman and will pass whatever tests are required so long as they are not being conducted by a discredited organisation.
It’s not just the IBA. Her own team did an independent test by a world renowned endocrinologist and it confirmed she had male (XY) chromosomes.
You shouldn’t be downvoted. You are correct and posted a source.
Source?
Here you go.
In the interview, her French trainer and biology professor stated that he referred her to a world class endocrinologist, who confirmed “she is indeed a woman, despite her karyotype and testosterone levels.” In other words, she’s XY and male testosterone levels. (They never made it clear what facts were relied on for the “she is indeed a woman” statement, but obviously it wasn’t her genome).
The following exchange took place between the journalist and trainer/bio professor immediately after this statement about her karyotype:
Some claim that XY profiles have a physical, muscular superiority over XX profiles.
“People say that everyone should play sports. Everyone, except these people? Some suggest creating special categories, but even within a group of hypoandrogenic or hyperandrogenic people, there are differences among them. There is such a significant variation that categories cannot be established.”
Her trainer also admitted they had to lower her testosterone levels to below male levels.
She has never once claimed to be XX. I’m not sure why you would assume she is?
Yup, queue the medical records I mentioned above. Which is when I will pull out the popcorn!
They will not, in fact, pull any medical records. The IBA data is compromised, from a Russian oligarch run organization backed by Putin. Banned for match fixing the 2016 Olympics, they have no creditability anymore and any test results they have would be so suspect as to be inadmissible in court.
They also don’t have to prove Imane Khelif is a woman (which she is) to win such a case. Imane Khelif was stated to have been born a woman, and has been a woman her whole life.
There was ZERO evidence for JK’s claims outside of disreputable foreign sources with an anti-western culture battle being propagated by their war mongering President.
It’s like Alex Jones peddling Sandy Hook conspiracies. There was no reasonable reason to believe any of that, and that’s why he’s on the hook for over a billion dollars.
The ONLY source JK or Elon had was something that isn’t a valid source - anything else that may or may not exist was not at her disposal, other than public knowledge that Imane Khelif was born a woman and lived her whole life as a woman.
In the courts, this plays out as “You honor, my client has been a woman her whole life, as evidenced by her birth certificate and passport. The defense has no admissible evidence they could have seen that would have supported their attacks at the time.”
She retains a right to privacy, so the courts aren’t going to require medical records when JK and Elon didn’t have access to her medical records when they went after her.