I think it’s almost unanimous that Steph is the greatest shooter of all time and Magic is the greatest passer of all time. My question is, who has a wider gap between them and #2 + the rest of the pack?
Also, stats are important, but not the end all be all here. For instance, Klay might actually be a slightly better catch-and-shoot 3pt maker than Steph, but Steph is so far and away better at creating his own shot it’s why he is clearly the best shooter of all time. And Magic may not hold the assist record, but you would be hard-pressed by most fans and players if you said Stockton had a similar passing ability to Magic.
I was gonna say, you can throw in Nash, Kidd, and Stockton in there and it’s splitting hairs.
There’s never been a shooter like Steph Curry.
Reggie Miller?
Not even close
See, I guess I just don’t see Nash, Kidd, and Stockton really being close in passing ability to Magic.
I’m actually kind of surprised people don’t think Magic sits in a tier far and away from the rest of the pack (not saying that’s who I would pick in my scenario, in all honesty I think I lean towards Steph).
Magic literally makes passes none of those guys can make. Full-court one-handed bounce passes, the consistency of his no-look passes (the other guys could do it, but it was rare when with Magic it was a common occurrence).
Just out of curiosity, why do you think those guys listed are in the same tier as Magic in terms of passing?
Sounds like you’re by yourself then, everyone else sees those guys plus a few others as just as elite of passers. I’m not even sure I’d consider Magic the best passer all time…that gives you your answer
I don’t only think they’re in the same tier, I think a couple of them are better passers than Magic. I’d also consider throwing Jokic into that category too.
I don’t think Magic is a generational passer. Jason Kidd did everything you described Magic doing in spades. Stockton averaged 14.5 assists per game for his career. Jokic is able to make the passes he does, even at his height and size.
It’s hard for me to put Kidd in the same category when he’s only averaged double digit assists as a pass first point guard 3 times in his career.
Look up Nash’s shooting splits. He had more 50/40/90 seasons than the rest of nba history combined. Or did at one point.
Pretty sure he had the only 50/40/90 season(s) at one point.
Bird had multiple 50/40/90 seasons in the 80’s, so I don’t think that’s right
You are definitely right idk why I thought that.
What is interesting is Nash, in addition to be talked about as one of the great passers, is also in the discussion for second best shooter. He had four 50-40-90 seasons and missed a fifth by .1% from the line. The rest of the NBA combined has 14 of those seasons. Obviously the volume was nowhere near the same as Steph, but you have to wonder what he would’ve done in today’s NBA where the shooting PG was more of an emphasis. He has the scoring ability, for sure. Steph is #1 without dispute, but I don’t think the chasm between him and Nash is quite as wide as people think.
Stockton is not competing for “greatest passer of all time”. He was a floor general, game manager passer and was arguably the best at that, but didn’t consistently make the difficult passes the other players above him did/do. That wasn’t his game, but if you don’t so it, you don’t get a bonus for it from me.
When people talk about best passers, they usually try to conflate it with “person that gets the most assists” when that isn’t what it means. Also AST/TO ratio doesn’t always mean someone was a more efficient passer than someone else without looking at usage rate and how they get those turnovers, if someone else, like Chris Paul, has way more dribbling and driving responsibilities and has tougher reads to make when passing the ball.
The ability to pass the ball, i.e. fitting it through tight windows, across the court, over defenders, under defenders, moving them around with fakes, alley-oop passes, flashy passes, etc. These all are what I really look at when trying to decide how good of a passer someone is. And Stockton does not fit enough of these for me, to be in the conversation for “best passer of all time”.
Stockton is not even a top 10 passer of all time in actual talent level. Like tell me a memorable stockton dime lol.
In no order Magic jokic lebron nash kidd luka harden thomas cp3 larry bird.
He’s included because he’s the all-time assists leader and assists/game leader in nba history. Including him in this discussion is the same reason we throw Bill Russell into the GOAT convo. Is Bill one of the greatest of all time? Probably not, but the records and stat lines speak for themselves, and get his name included.
Jokic absolutely belongs in that tier, too, and maybe Bird. They get pegged down unfairly because their APG isn’t as high as full-time PGs