USA Gymnastics officials say an arbitration panel won’t reconsider a decision asking gymnast Jordan Chiles to return the bronze medal she won at the Paris Olympics
How are they going to go back after review, admit they were wrong, then come back again now and say they were wrong but you were 4 seconds too late on catching our mistake? That just seems so stupid.
I don’t get why it’s not acceptable that team USA submitted 4 seconds late, even though they had evidence it was on time, but Romania can submit an appeal several days later and that’s enough to overturn
Because one is about the judging of her performance and the other is about if the rules of the competition was follow, there is a pretty clear difference.
Yet Romania can’t appeal the ruling of their gymnastics who is still the rightful bronze medalist. The Romanian woman who will end up with bronze should be 5th of the judges had done their jobs right or if all appeals were handled correctly.
Afaik they didn’t admit they were wrong. Romania says the ruling is right (obviously), the US says the ruling is wrong (obviously) and noone else really knows if the appeal was on time.
This will be a huge bitchfight between the US, Courts and Romania for years. Should be pretty entertaining
Personally I think it’s wild a competition’s winner can even be appealed if the event is already over. Can you imagine if basketball games were reversed days later because of bad foul call discovered after the fact?
Judgement errors happen by the dozen in every sport, and generally it’s just accepted as an inevitable part of the game. During the competition the judges accepted the inquiry as valid. Whether it was four seconds late or not, how would that any different than any other potential judgement error they made?
If official results are non-binding pending later discovered judge errors, competitions just result to perpetual pissing matches while people argue over who the “real” winner was.
All this to take away a medal both countries are fine with sharing and because the IOC wouldn’t be the grown up in the room and allow that they open a huge can of worms.
I hope Team GB now tries something for this gold medal. And then next week another country because of another technicality.
This is a good point. I suppose the main counter to it is, a bad call in a game like basketball, you can’t really unwind that, because there’s so much interplay between the teams. But gymnastics is much more, your routine alone. Except, a gymnast can change their routine on the fly in response to an opponent’s performance, so there is some of that interplay (which is why the difficulty score isn’t set ahead of time, which is kind of the root of the whole problem). And then you might say, yeah, but this is the last call, it really does indisputably affect the outcome, but that’s true in some situations in basketball, too, and you still accept that the ref might get that wrong, and once you’ve exhausted whatever in-game appeals process exists, you live with it. You don’t overturn it after the fact.
“wild a competition winner can even be appealed if the event is already over” is actually the crux of this.
Technically speaking, Romania states the US could not appeal, as the competition was de jure over. As the Americans has 60 seconds after the score was given to appeal, and didn’t appeal in time (whether this was the case, I do not know).
In a way, Romania is arguing exactly what you are saying: The game was over, final buzzer has gone and the Romanians were celebrating in the locker room, and all of a sudden the US appeals that a actually the 2-point shot at the buzzer was a 3-point shot which would have overturned the game (sort of speak).
In the end, we can debate all we want. A jury deciding on a winner is never good… There is always so much debate after these events. It’s the same with judo and taekwondo where there is always controversial decisions… In this instance the Romanian girl didn’t win the bronze, and neither did the American girl. But actually a different (also Romanian) girl that the jury wrongfully deducted points for an imaginary penalty that didn’t occur. Literally everyone saw it, it this sort of penalty you are NOT allowed to appeal for whatever ridiculous reason, so the real number 3 is still standing empty handed
They weren’t even late on catching the mistake, but the CAS has stated that the evidence USAG has showing that the crucial evidence used to overturn the Chiles’ bronze score is incorrect cannot be considered and their decision is final.
So basically “yeah, we hear you that the ‘evidence’ we used to strip your medal is wrong, but we can’t litsen to that evidence now because we’ve already ruled on this, so, too bad”
Regardless of affiliation, everyone should want to get this right, and basically no matter who you ask here, they got this massively wrong.
How are they going to go back after review, admit they were wrong, then come back again now and say they were wrong but you were 4 seconds too late on catching our mistake? That just seems so stupid.
I don’t get why it’s not acceptable that team USA submitted 4 seconds late, even though they had evidence it was on time, but Romania can submit an appeal several days later and that’s enough to overturn
Because one is about the judging of her performance and the other is about if the rules of the competition was follow, there is a pretty clear difference.
Yet Romania can’t appeal the ruling of their gymnastics who is still the rightful bronze medalist. The Romanian woman who will end up with bronze should be 5th of the judges had done their jobs right or if all appeals were handled correctly.
Afaik they didn’t admit they were wrong. Romania says the ruling is right (obviously), the US says the ruling is wrong (obviously) and noone else really knows if the appeal was on time.
This will be a huge bitchfight between the US, Courts and Romania for years. Should be pretty entertaining
Personally I think it’s wild a competition’s winner can even be appealed if the event is already over. Can you imagine if basketball games were reversed days later because of bad foul call discovered after the fact?
Judgement errors happen by the dozen in every sport, and generally it’s just accepted as an inevitable part of the game. During the competition the judges accepted the inquiry as valid. Whether it was four seconds late or not, how would that any different than any other potential judgement error they made?
If official results are non-binding pending later discovered judge errors, competitions just result to perpetual pissing matches while people argue over who the “real” winner was.
There are circumstances in most sports where this can happen - and basketball has a way to appeal wrong decisions after the fact.
E.g. in 2007: https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421
It’s a really bad precedent and the first time a medal has ever been taken because of something that wasn’t the fault of the athlete.
And now an athlete in the UK is yelling about an obvious judging error that kept her from getting the gold.
What athlete ?
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240813-british-olympic-shooter-wants-apology-over-call-that-ended-gold-bid
oh she did win silver tho
All this to take away a medal both countries are fine with sharing and because the IOC wouldn’t be the grown up in the room and allow that they open a huge can of worms.
I hope Team GB now tries something for this gold medal. And then next week another country because of another technicality.
I agree, it’s just such bad precedent. Let’s go after elbowing in the Marathon next
There are circumstances in most sports where this can happen - and basketball has a way to appeal wrong decisions after the fact.
E.g. in 2007: https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421
There are circumstances in most sports where this can happen - and basketball has a way to appeal wrong decisions after the fact.
This is a good point. I suppose the main counter to it is, a bad call in a game like basketball, you can’t really unwind that, because there’s so much interplay between the teams. But gymnastics is much more, your routine alone. Except, a gymnast can change their routine on the fly in response to an opponent’s performance, so there is some of that interplay (which is why the difficulty score isn’t set ahead of time, which is kind of the root of the whole problem). And then you might say, yeah, but this is the last call, it really does indisputably affect the outcome, but that’s true in some situations in basketball, too, and you still accept that the ref might get that wrong, and once you’ve exhausted whatever in-game appeals process exists, you live with it. You don’t overturn it after the fact.
“wild a competition winner can even be appealed if the event is already over” is actually the crux of this.
Technically speaking, Romania states the US could not appeal, as the competition was de jure over. As the Americans has 60 seconds after the score was given to appeal, and didn’t appeal in time (whether this was the case, I do not know).
In a way, Romania is arguing exactly what you are saying: The game was over, final buzzer has gone and the Romanians were celebrating in the locker room, and all of a sudden the US appeals that a actually the 2-point shot at the buzzer was a 3-point shot which would have overturned the game (sort of speak).
In the end, we can debate all we want. A jury deciding on a winner is never good… There is always so much debate after these events. It’s the same with judo and taekwondo where there is always controversial decisions… In this instance the Romanian girl didn’t win the bronze, and neither did the American girl. But actually a different (also Romanian) girl that the jury wrongfully deducted points for an imaginary penalty that didn’t occur. Literally everyone saw it, it this sort of penalty you are NOT allowed to appeal for whatever ridiculous reason, so the real number 3 is still standing empty handed
If they allow late appeals then a different Romanian ends up in 3rd
It’s worse.
They weren’t even late on catching the mistake, but the CAS has stated that the evidence USAG has showing that the crucial evidence used to overturn the Chiles’ bronze score is incorrect cannot be considered and their decision is final.
So basically “yeah, we hear you that the ‘evidence’ we used to strip your medal is wrong, but we can’t litsen to that evidence now because we’ve already ruled on this, so, too bad”
Regardless of affiliation, everyone should want to get this right, and basically no matter who you ask here, they got this massively wrong.
To be fair, the US should have submitted that evidence in the first place.
They were never given the opportunity.
They were, during their first appeal.